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CINDY LB OH
04-14-2012, 01:45 PM
My dd17 is participating in a local homeschool grad ceremony organized by a fellow parent. Here is the grad attire "requirements"


GUYS: Dress pants and a nice shirt (button-front or nice polo) are appropriate and a tie is nice if desired . Belts are a must! Dress shoes are encouraged. LADIES: Girls may wear dress pants or a skirt that comes over your knees when you sit, and a nice blouse, or a modest dress. As you look for those perfect cute shoes to complement your outfit, remember you will be walking down the aisle and up some steps, so think of comfort and safety also! Please ensure that no distractions or outright temptations are put in front of the men & boys present by showing skin inappropriately! This could translate as no cleavage, bosoms, midsections showing and shoulders modestly covered.
How far do you go to comply??? I know that sounds weird, but my dd doesn't own a dress that would cover her knees while standing, let alone while sitting! She knows how to sit like a lady. She is not a frumpy dresser :lol: But yet I consider what she wears to be appropriately fashionable :D She has 2 dresses that go almost to her knees. One is black though, and I'm sure she won't want to wear that one. I'm not going to go buy something she will never where again. So do you just not worry about it and hope no one notices??

Honestly, I don't get why seeing a girls knees is bad. And shoulders for that matter either. And why is a belt "a must" for a guy?

Shelly in MN
04-14-2012, 02:11 PM
Okay, after reading her email, my carnal self would be tempted to send her a picture of a Vegas showgirl and ask her if the outfit passes muster. Like you couldn't figure out what is modest and appropriate for the occasion without her input? :eyes:

I'd let her wear something she is comfortable in and feels beautiful in for her special day. :)

WendyW
04-14-2012, 02:16 PM
Will they be sitting on a platform facing the audience? If so, it's not the knees showing that they are concerned about. It's everything above that! Our public school has the same requirements for kids in band for the concerts, with the addition that girls that play cello must wear pants.

A belt is a must for the boys because with the shirt tucked in, not wearing a belt just looks unfinished.

I expect the shoulders thing is either becasue they are trying to make sure that the more conservative people in the group are not offended, or they want to avoid the whole issue of skinny dress straps with bra straps showing.

I would try the thrift stores or friends' closets and find her a basic skirt that will meet the requirement. I would not spend a bunch of money on something I know she will never wear again, but I would attempt to comply with their requirements. Maybe you could find one long enough for this event that could then be shortened to a length she likes for wearing later.

Shelly in MN
04-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Wendy's response is much more Christ-like than mine, Cindy. Disregard what carnal old me posted. :)

TonyaP
04-14-2012, 02:54 PM
:spin:

It would bother me to have quite so many rules for the event, I tend to get really annoyed by that sort of thing. How important is the event to your dd?

I wouldn't want to cause a stir at the event by having the "wrong" outfit. Ok, I would want to- but kids in ps get turned away from prom for not meeting the guidelines so your note author might actually turn you away the day of!

ETA: You could get a nice conservative length skirt and save it for her "interview" outfit.

Colleen OH
04-14-2012, 03:27 PM
I guess I am surprised they were that detailed about it because I know people tend to get very offended when told what they ought to wear.

No advise on what to wear. Our family naturally dresses like the note says, so I personally don't think it sounds that outlandish. I realize our family tends to be in the minority wardrobe-wise.

I have never told anyone else what to wear, but I sure have been uncomfortable with what people have showed up in! I always figured it was a matter of course that people will wear what people will wear.

Like I said, I recognize people get offended by "dress codes", but I would be hesitant to encourage your dd to choose such a special day to make a statement letting them know if she didn't like it.

This is a homeschool group?

Melissa Crabtree
04-14-2012, 03:29 PM
To be totally honest, I think it's wonderful that she's addressing this! Maybe some girl in the past has had a most embarrassing moment when she didn't realize how short her skirt really was...
If a dress is above the knee at the same level, it will look more above the knee when one is on stage and all observers are sitting at floor level. Those graduating guys sitting in the front row may get an eyeful. I think it's great that she's not afraid to coach people. Your dd may not be part of the group she has in mind, but maybe there are some she's feeling the need to be more direct for. My guess is she had to pick something measurable, and "below the knees when sitting" is a measurable length as opposed to "not too short" which can be interpreted all sorts of ways.
I'd coach your dd that it's important to respect the authority, whether or not it fits your style at the moment. You guys are the ones who chose to participate, you know? I'd participate and take the high road, and find a way to do it that won't be unreasonably expensive.

CINDY LB OH
04-14-2012, 04:29 PM
I know the woman, and she is very conservative, so I figured this would happen. And she knows my dd and wouldn't agree with the way she dresses. So she most likely was thinking of her when she wrote the e-mail :lol:

But..... they will be wearing graduation gowns during the ceremony, which are obviously long. I guess I should have said that.
Getting an eyeful of crotch should not be an issue :lol: And my dd does get that. She knows how to sit like a lady ;)

I, and my dd, both have a little rebellious side :lol: So I will most likely let her wear her most conservative outfit, though it will not meet their standards regarding knee coverage. She could wear leggings under that dress though, so maybe we'll do that. Then it should be fine.

I can't wait to see dd's reaction when she reads the e-mail :roflol: She's going to flip!

Gitel in nj
04-14-2012, 04:32 PM
I am assuming no graduation gowns? Because that would solve all the problems.

Personally, if purchasing a new outfit is not in the budget, I think you should let your daughter wear what she has--assuming it it is appropriate. And by appropriate I mean that YOU feel it is appropriate for a graduation ceremony.

This is the kind of thing that makes me start to think of Burkas..does someone really think that the men are going to suddenly go crazy if they see a shoulder or a knee. REALLY?

Gitel in nj
04-14-2012, 04:34 PM
But..... they will be wearing graduation gowns during the ceremony, which are obviously long. I guess I should have said that.

I, and my dd, both have a little rebellious side :lol: So I will most likely let her wear her most conservative outfit, though it will not meet their standards regarding knee coverage. She could wear leggings under that dress though, so maybe we'll do that.

I can't wait to see dd's reaction when she reads the e-mail :roflol: She's going to flip!

Apparently we posted at the same time...

You are a girl after my own heart. :clap:

TonyaP
04-14-2012, 05:02 PM
Oh gowns, well then, maybe you should go with Shelly's idea? ;)

Is this an invitation only thing where the other parent can pick and choose who comes? I guess if it's her party she can dictate attire. :/

Melissa Crabtree
04-14-2012, 10:21 PM
Well that sure changes things!

tracy
04-15-2012, 02:50 AM
Cindy~
After reading your original post with the email instructions, I immediately looked for where you live. The graduation attire, formal attire, anything related to school is something that is often addressed here in So. Cal.

Boys are reminded to wear belts, not so they will look finished and complete when their shirts are tucked in, so their pants wont be sagging down their behinds with underpants showing.

Girls are suggested to wear tops with sleeves or straps at least 1" wide so their "girls" are falling out. They have stopped talking about cleavage showing because that would mean addressing the moms also ...... and well... there goes the silicon industry. The length of dress is mentioned as a nice extra but unfortunately dresses for teens and young adults don't reach to the knee. Here schools suggest a dress reach to the wearers finger tips. Girls will slightly bend their elbows to get away with wearing their favourite dress.

I know for my girls finding a dress to the knees is like finding a needle in a haystack. My girls are tall. They will be wearing low heals so as not to draw too much attention to their bare legs. Which is another thing here. So. California girls and So. California women do not wear pantyhose. This is an argument I have with my girls every time they put on a dress.

Well, now that I have just stepped on toes. I will clamp up. :D

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 08:18 AM
Thanks Tracy :) See, that was my first thought about the belt, but when you look at the guy graduates, you would quickly know that would not be an issue. None of them were walking around with their pants hanging too low. :lol: Oh, and girls don't wear pantyhose here either ;)

Of course, dd17 flipped when I showed her the e-mail :lol: just like I knew she would. Fashion means a LOT to her. She loves to dress up and look "in-style". She had her outfit all planned... a nice cocktail party dress that she wore to a wedding last spring, bare shoulders and above the knee.

She won't wear leggings with the one that isn't bare shoulders, but she doesn't want to wear that one anyway since she wore it to her sister's graduation 2 years ago. Which btw was organized by a much cooler :cool: mom. But when a mom steps up to organize an area homeschool graduation, who's gonna object, right? This year it just happened to be a very conservative lady/group, but the ceremony is open to anyone who wants to participate. Dd17 is actually very good friends with this lady's son. They've known each other for many years through the homeschool band program we have here. My dd has this thing about "looking" like the stereotypical home schooler. She refuses to :lol:

So, I told dd we would go to Plato's Closet and see if we could find something that might work, that I won't be wasting my money on. For the ceremony they will be wearing graduation gowns, but there is a reception after. I guess she wants to make sure they are dressed appropriately for the reception though there will be around 200 people there for this group of 21 graduates. So she is trying to control the attire of 21 people in a group of 200-250 people :eyes: But... we chose to participate, so we'll see what we can find. We may not cover the knees, but we'll be appropriate otherwise ;)

tracy
04-15-2012, 11:04 AM
My dd has this thing about "looking" like the stereotypical home schooler. She refuses to :lol:

We may not cover the knees, but we'll be appropriate otherwise ;)

Your dd sounds like my eldest dd. So I asked her, "what does a typical home schooler look like?" She responded, "someone who is wearing clothes picked out by mom when mom thinks the clothes that she herself wore back in high school are still 'cool' " :lol: What is funny about her answer is I was considered a preppy. So she refuses to wear anything with a little logo on it or pants that give a wee bit more leg room, or any type of shoe I pick out. :lol:

You confirmed what I assumed. The organizer has a son graduating. I have found the moms of sons are much more strict on dress code and attire. They spend more words on addressing the girls than the boys. I have 2 seniors graduating from 2 different high schools, one 8th grader graduating from a charter school and two still involved in our local home school co-op. I am involved in them all. Dress attire for girls is the number one issue across the board. :)

JC Penny right now has some beautiful, fun, affordable dresses that are perfect for graduation. And ones she would want to wear later. I know, I know, JC Penny is not cool but maybe you could entice her to go look with an ice cream cone afterwards. Scratch that. Starbucks drink afterwards. :cool:

Good luck.

tracy
04-15-2012, 11:18 AM
Cindy~
Here's something to share with your dd.

At my 18dd's home-school charter high school, there is a mom of a son who is in charge of class pictures for the school. She walks around with pieces of cloth to tuck into the front of a student's blouse if she considers the blouse/t-shirt/top to be too low. She does this at all the school dances also. Before my dd filled out her top just this year (and jumped 2 sizes), this mom would give my dd a fit. My dd would laugh and say to me "mom, Really?! she is worried about my size A's falling out?"

My dd knows her son well. And............. That's all I will say.:unsure: :lol:

KarenF
04-15-2012, 01:50 PM
Wow. That is really specific. I do not think I own something that would fall into that but mostly because I like dress slacks over skirts and dresses. You are much more understanding than I would be!

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Tracy--- :yes: YES, I would say our dd's are exactly alike. :lol: So funny about the mom at the school.

My daughter says, "c,mon, shouldn't we give guys some credit that if they see shoulders or knees that aren't going to be total pigs?" I think she's right. ;)

This is what my dd was going to wear; she's the red-head on the left. But even something like her friends dress on the right wouldn't be acceptable, right?

WendyW
04-15-2012, 03:14 PM
This is what my dd was going to wear; she's the red-head on the left. But even something like her friends dress on the right wouldn't be acceptable, right?

I see nothing wrong with the friend's dress. I would consider that perfectly appropriate.

Your dd's is cute, but for this occasion, I would suggest a lightweight or lace shrug over shoulders. Personally, I think the bodice brings to mind a swimsuit top and while it would be great for many occasions, I think this one deserves a bit more formality. :unsure:

Rebe
04-15-2012, 03:30 PM
I see nothing wrong with the friend's dress. I would consider that perfectly appropriate.

Your dd's is cute, but for this occasion, I would suggest a lightweight or lace shrug over shoulders. Personally, I think the bodice brings to mind a swimsuit top and while it would be great for many occasions, I think this one deserves a bit more formality. :unsure:

I agree with Wendy. I love the pink dress, but I personally wouldn't want my dd to wear the strapless one for graduation, for the reasons Wendy mentioned. But OTOH, I don't have a dd who's fashion-concious and is begging to wear it. :unsure: A shrug would solve the problem, though. Would she wear one?

Interesting comment, Tracy, about moms of sons. When my ds "graduated" 8th grade, I was kind of shocked at the dresses the girls wore (keep in mind that many 8th grade boys are still very much boys, and many 8th grade girls look about 19 years old -- so it looked a bit odd from that perspective, too). My thought (having a daughter of my own) is that I'm not comfortable with my dd wearing something that's going to cause people to fixate on a particular body part when they look at her -- whatever that may be (and believe me, that was exactly what was going on with these dresses). Maybe I'm being unrealistic, I don't know. We don't have to deal with this yet here, as my dd isn't into girly clothes anyway.

BTW, Cindy, your dd is a lovely girl. :)

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 03:41 PM
I see nothing wrong with the friend's dress. I would consider that perfectly appropriate.

Your dd's is cute, but for this occasion, I would suggest a lightweight or lace shrug over shoulders. Personally, I think the bodice brings to mind a swimsuit top and while it would be great for many occasions, I think this one deserves a bit more formality. :unsure:
LOL! Too much clam shell/little mermaid :lol: I guess I don't consider a graduation that formal of an affair. I'll just be wearing navy blue docker-style pants and not sure what kind of top yet. :crazy: But the friends dress doesn't cover shoulders or knees either.... so see my original question? How far would you go to comply? So you consider something like the friends dress close enough to compliance?

If I could convince dd to wear a lace shrug (which she would hate, but may do it if she could still wear the original dress), would you consider that close enough and not worry about the knees?

Rebe
04-15-2012, 03:52 PM
How far would you go to comply? So you consider something like the friends dress close enough to compliance?

If I could convince dd to wear a lace shrug (which she would hate, but may do it if she could still wear the original dress), would you consider that close enough and not worry about the knees?

(Not Wendy, but) I think a shrug would solve the whole problem, and be really cute. I would let the knees go if she would wear the shrug (choose your battles). Be prepared for "looks" if the other mom is displeased with the knees ... ;)

The friend's dress has wide straps. That says "coverage" even though the shoulders are technically exposed. Strapless says "vast, wide expanse of uncovered skin in the bodice area." That's the difference (to me).

Just speaking as the mom of sons. ;)

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 04:05 PM
I agree with Wendy. I love the pink dress, but I personally wouldn't want my dd to wear the strapless one for graduation, for the reasons Wendy mentioned. But OTOH, I don't have a dd who's fashion-concious and is begging to wear it. :unsure: A shrug would solve the problem, though. Would she wear one?
I don't know. We don't have to deal with this yet here, as my dd isn't into girly clothes anyway.

BTW, Cindy, your dd is a lovely girl. :)
I would have never approved the dress for 8th grade either. I think the summer after her 10th grade year was when she started liking the strapless cocktail dresses. I was not exactly thrilled, but there are worse things she could like so we allowed some compromises. I know many homeschool teens who live with strict parental rules, and they just go behind their parents backs. So yea.... it's like walking a tightrope. My oldest dd was more of a tomboy so it wasn't an issue with her, but dd17 definitely loves her dresses and shoes!

So you would consider a lightweight shrug enough and not worry about the knees?

ETA: We were posting at the same time. Thanks Rebe. That helps a LOT! She may go for the shrug even though she doesn't like them. I think Plato's Closet has some, so we'll go look.

WendyW
04-15-2012, 04:25 PM
I guess I don't consider a graduation that formal of an affair.

I didn't mean "formal" in that sense. I meant a little further along the spectrum toward formal. Does that make sense?




The friend's dress has wide straps. That says "coverage" even though the shoulders are technically exposed. Strapless says "vast, wide expanse of uncovered skin in the bodice area." That's the difference (to me).

:yes::yes:



So you would consider a lightweight shrug enough and not worry about the knees?

If this were an event planned by an organization that was known to have specific standards, or had a reputation for conservativeness that implied certain standards, I would do what they say.

However, given the details that: this was planned by one mom who chose to impose her rather strict standards on everyone else; they will be wearing gowns on stage; those dresses are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, anywhere near mini-skirt status; yes, I would choose to not worry about the knees.

Jill in Monrovia
04-15-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm not sure you'll like my answer but if she doesn't want to wear the clothes, don't go. Problem solved.
I don't know if the mom in charge can prevent her from participating due to clothing but that's something to consider if you daughter is willingly going to go against "the rules" for clothing. I think not going is better than going with protest clothing and being asked to leave.

Jill in Monrovia

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 05:05 PM
I'm not sure you'll like my answer but if she doesn't want to wear the clothes, don't go. Problem solved.
I don't know if the mom in charge can prevent her from participating due to clothing but that's something to consider if you daughter is willingly going to go against "the rules" for clothing. I think not going is better than going with protest clothing and being asked to leave.

Jill in Monrovia
Well, this is what she was going to wear before we received the dress code yesterday. She can't prevent her from participating, after all, they are wearing graduation gowns for the entire ceremony. Nobody would know what she has on underneath. All the parents participated in the planning of the ceremony and reception, and dress code was never brought up in any of the meetings. This is coming from the head organizing mom.

She will NOT be wearing protest clothing. We are planning on going to Plato's Closet to either look for something closely appropriate, or a shrug to wear with the current dress. I can take a few looks for my dd's knees showing.

Actually, we did consider not attending the reception, but just leave and go out for dessert after the ceremony. We don't have any family attending except for one set of grandparents. So it wouldn't be a big deal if we didn't stay. I think dd wants to stay for some of the reception though, to hang out with a few friends. Of the 21 graduates, she only knows 4 of them.

Jill in Monrovia
04-15-2012, 07:08 PM
I agree the dress code should have been brought up during the parents meeting. At least if you have any more kids that can be cleared up before the next time with this group.

Around here though, if you don't wear the clothes, (and they'd check) they'd prevent her from participating in the ceremony. That's how it works here.

Hope Plato's Closet has something everyone will like.

Jill in Monrovia

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 07:35 PM
I hope we can find something too Jill. ;)

April Marie
04-15-2012, 07:44 PM
cindy - erica looks ADORABLE!
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with her dress - pretty and fashionable and young!
plus she'll be wearing a graduation gown . . .

i realize this woman is the organizer
but is it really up to her to set the dress code?

erica should wear what makes her feel like erica (and happy)
it's HER day!

i would not buy anything else
and i would wear what i want to

i realize as i write this that i am also something of a rebel
(especially when it comes to clothing)
but i honestly don't see a problem with the dress
it's beautiful and there is nothing immodest about it

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 08:35 PM
Thanks, April..... I love the dress too. I think it's appropriate for an 18 yo.

But.... we'll be looking for something else since we don't want to cause a ruckus at the reception when she takes her grad gown off....GASP! :lol: I asked her about a shrug when she got home from theater practice, and she immediately said NO! She hates those.

We will hopefully find something cute, not strapless, but I'm sure her knees will be showing and we won't worry about that. ;)

Thanks everyone for all your input. ;)

CINDY LB OH
04-15-2012, 08:43 PM
[B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]

erica should wear what makes her feel like erica (and happy)
it's HER day!
:thumb: It's funny.... last night she was telling her friend, who's taking her to prom, about the dress code. He just laughed and said, "So basically you can't be you." Yeah. Her prom dress is strapless too. ;) But it passes the school's dress code!

Robin in Colorado
04-16-2012, 09:32 AM
Cindy,

I have enough of my daddy in me that I do tend to chafe at rules.

That said, I'm going to be the dissenting opinion here. I'm typing with a loving tone of voice :), so I hope you 'hear' that when you read.

I am assuming that there is no force applied (no law requirement, no one held for ransom) that you participate in this particular graduation. In other words, your participation is something you are choosing to do.

Given that assumption is true, then my response would be that you respectfully follow the rules. Now, if the law said you had to attend this event, I'd be responding just a tad differently. ;) But since you're choosing to go...

I don' t know the people who made the rules or their reasoning, but it sounds like you're not surprised by them. And I don't see anything in them that is objectionable. There are lots of cute outfits your dd can put together from the local thrift store that would meet the requirements and still be her unique and lovely self.

Here we have lots of options for hs graduations: our state organization, local homeschool groups, and co-ops all do their own events, and many of them have rules. Even with those options, most families I know do their own ceremonies, often in their church or their home, and make it what they want it to be, but that's a lot of work. It's nice to have someone else do all the planning. When someone else does the planning and rule making, though, often we just have to sit back, fasten the seatbelt, and ride the ride (keeping our hands and arms in at all times, of course ;) ).

I'm just trying to say that since you're choosing to participate, why not choose to participate fully? I generally operate under the idea of either follow the rules, change the rules, or go somewhere where I like the rules better. :D (Or, my ultimate favorite: go somewhere where I get to make my own. :lol: )

ETA: I looked at the photo. She's a lovely girl and it's a cute dress, but for most folks graduation is a formal event and that's a very afternoon-casual style. :)

It *is* a big day for your girl, and for you, but she's sharing it with lots of others and it's their big day, too. When you're coordinating an event for so many families, the coordinator is working hard to have a line that will mostly please most of the people. No one is going to be happy with everything that the woman or the committee have decided, but I'm guessing they're doing a hard job the best they can. :group: